TSBVI Coffee Hour: The Impact of Stress on Brain Development and Brain Resiliency Ð Part 2 Ð 9-30-21 

>> Dr. Anthony: Hi, everybody. What an incredible opportunity to on our very last presentation to really have some times to reflect about what's happened these past many months with the pandemic. So I do want to introduce our panel today. In no special order, I've just taken notes on my pad. I'm just going to ask people to do a brief introduction so we've met Dr. Cameron. I'd like our panelists to turn their camera on so everyone can see them. Paula and Joanne, please go first with an introduction, who you are, what your title is, and the children and families you represent. 

>> Hi. I'm Paula. I'm teacher of [indiscernible] and co-founder of a shared vision in Colorado. We serve children birth to three, across most of the state, about 85% of the state. 

>> And hi, I'm Joanne Corwin. Casey, could you start my video for me?  It says I can't because the host has stopped it. Assist thank you.  So hi. I'm Joanne Corwin, I'm director of the early intervention program within the New Mexico school for the deaf. 

>> Kaycee: Okay, Meghan and Amy next, please. 

>> Good morning and good afternoon, those of you in various time z zones. Thanks, Tanni. My name is Meghan and I work with the Arizona deafblind project. I'm a deafblind specialist. And we serve both educators and families, children and youth with combined vision and hearing loss. All the way from birth up to age 22. I'm a speech/language pathologist on the side as well. 

>> Hello. My name is Amy Fletcher. I'm a teacher for the -- visually impaired and a specialist with New Mexico school for the blind and visually impaired. The population I work with is birth to three. Under Julie Manor as our coordinator. 

>> Okay. Wendy, then we'll come back to Judy just for a refresher in case somebody's popped in and missed Judy's wonderful presentation. 

>> Hello, everyone. I'm Wendy Prouse. I'm northwest regional supervisor for New Mexico school for the deaf, our early intervention program. 

>> Dr. Cameron: I'm Judy Cameron. I just gave a very long talk. and I'm a neuroscientist that studies brain development and things about how experiences really impact brain development. . 

>> Okay. Did I miss all of our panelists? Did I miss anybody from. I'll introduce myself, Tanni Anthony, I live in Colorado where it's very foggy and rainy today. I'm looking out the window wondering if summer has truly left the building. I have many hats when it comes to sensory disability. I am a teacher of learners with visual impairments. And also I am a co-project director of our Colorado deafblind grant. So what's been happening over the past many months is that the WREIC committee, Western Regional Early Intervention Conference has been talking about how do we meet professional needs during the pandemic. So like many of you, we had to pivot because we had an in-person conference plan on the calendar. I just actually erased it when it came up in September. We were going to host it in Utah, and that has been our plan and our opportunity for decades, truly. But when the pandemic hit, we had to pivot. We had to say ten people gather, is it smart to gather? Will hotels release us from obligations? We had to do a lot of things that many of you may be familiar with. But what really happened is that we pivoted to a series of online trainings. And we wanted to do kind of a final opportunity today to gather some of our folks who have lived this directly with kids, directly with families, directly with their organizations. Just to have a period of reflection. So I want to take you back. January, February of 2020, did you see it  coming? It's interesting now when you watch Dateline, all these programs on TV, 60 minutes, there were people who saw something coming, and I think there were a bunch of us who really again. But I tell you, by March, it hit. I will tell you, I have a very strong memory of applying back from my vacation home in Kawaii, on a plane. People were sitting like this, afraid to look at each other, it was before masks, we weren't sure if we could touch things. I came to my office, people approached me, some in tears and said can I please go home? I said, yeah, just take your computer, go home. We'll touch base. In my head I was thinking this was a two-week experience. I'm sure many of you in March 2020 started to get the gist of what's happening. We didn't know how long it would last and here we are today with lingering effects. We have a couple of questions with some really smart panelists. What I'm going to do is read the question. I believe we'll also put it in the chat so people can have access to it. And here's our goal. We're going to learn from some of our experts today. But we also know there's tremendous expertise in the audience. So if you will indulge us, we're going to listen and learn from some of our experts, and then we will do a time count, and then open it up for questions, insights, what you learned. Gist to have a chance of reflection. So here's our very first question, and this question will be going out to Paula Landry, Meghan, and Joanne. How about if we go in that order, then if I think of anything quasi brave, I may add to the mix. So here's our question: What are some key lessons you've learned during the pandemic? And then we want just kind of a little bit of reflection on surprises, heart break, losses, and challenges. So based on your role with kids and families, we're going to start with you, Paula. 

>> All right. Thank you, Tanni. I think the biggest lesson we learned as far as telehealth goes is that it can be done. We had done a lot of training across our state regarding telehealth, and it really just wasn't being used, for all kinds of reasons and excuses. And with our organization in particular, we had a few people who were using it pretty consistently. But, you know, the word of the past 19 months I think is "pivot." And we really were able to pivot very quickly because we had done the training, so we really didn't lose a lot of time in providing services for our families. Which was wonderful. And I think that, like I said, is the big picture lesson that we learned. I think just in reflecting on my own caseload and with our team members, was really what a great opportunity it was to hone our skills in that parent coaching model. And really empowering our families and helping them learning what it is we're doing. And I think, again, myself specifically, I feel like I'm a much better provider and better coach because you really are forced to do that on telehealth. And explain what and why you're doing things, or why you're suggesting strategies. So I feel like a lot of our parents learned a lot that way. And also, you know, looking at their children in a different way also, that they didn't have the opportunity to do previous to that. 

>> Dr. Anthony: Thanks, Paula. I'm not going to put you on the spot now, but we may come back. Think about something that you found that you had to explain to parents that maybe, in person, you modeled. What was something that you kind of had a little thought, this gives me a better chance to talk it through with the family? So with that, I'm going to move on to Meghan, and let's learn a little bit more about what she has to say. 

>> Thanks, Paula. I think some of my response definitely overlaps with yours, and will overlaps with other panelists. Definitely -- you know, I'm speaking from the role as staff on a deafblind project. And as many of you know, if you know other staff on deafblind project or if you are on staff at a deafblind project, we often cover a lot of ground, on a very tight budget, with a limited amount of staff. So I am relatively new to the Arizona deafblind project. It's am I third year but I'm really new, the pandemic, I feel like, kind of washed away some time there. Even though I'm speaking from my perspective, I think it applies to any person working in our field really. I can't ever know or do it all DHS I'd like to and as much as that would probably serve my personality tripe. So I think the pandemic really offered, and still does offer all of us an opportunity to take a deep dive into our capacity, either as an individual provider or as an organization. To recognize the limits of our capacity. We can't know it all and we can't do it all. And to really identify partners in our work. Those folks that you notice, just by attending a coffee chat or team meeting, you notice they have "it," and can build a partnership or relationship with them that really truly expands your capacity for whatever services you provide. So that can be larger scale, partnering with other organizations that do similar parallel work, or, you know, like Paula said, at the family level, really empowering caregivers or other service providers. So, for example, I used to kind of think that I was the trainer. I think I got used to that, deafblindness is such a disability, I think I'm probably the only person that really has this background, but trying to go horizontally with that knowledge. For example, for a part C child that's transitioning into preschool, asking -- you know, the parent, you know the work we did building a communication dictionary? Talking about all those different forms of communication your child uses to express himself? Would you feel comfortable training the preschool team on what that means and how to use that in a classroom setting? And, you know, having a Zoom with just the parents so they can practice how to train others on it. until they feel really confident, providing the training to the staff, and sets them up -- first of all, it expands my capacity as the deafblind provider, but it really sets that parent up to be the expert in the field, because they are. So that's just a really specific example, but, you know, just being humble about the limits of the capacity was definitely a surprise and a challenge. But then, you know, really served me well in the long run. 

>> Dr. Anthony: Thanks so much. We'll go to Joanne. 

>> Well, there's a Zoom thing -- you're muted -- and I don't know if you've ever played Zoom bingo, but that's always on the bingo card, as far as -- you're muted and you're trying to talk. So a shout-out to WREIC and to Utah and everybody who just thought, gosh -- You know, it was interesting when we first -- I'm part of the administrators group, and when we were first talking about this, I thought it was so interesting that they were like, instead of doing less, you know, let's postpone it, let's do more. And I thought that really sort of reflected early intervention. It certainly reflected the people that I have the privilege to work with in my department. I was -- I think I was one of the people kind of going, can we? And we had 21 [indiscernible] in our department saying, yes, we can, and this is how we're going to do it. And even though members of our department who are men, Brad and -- Jojo, I'm looking at you -- they were still going, yeah, we can.  Let's figure out how to do this. And it was difficult because when we were asked to talk about challenges and losses and surprises, I thought, okay, here we are going to into this thing. But as you all know, the landscape kept changing. It was like being in a fun house. You didn't know where the floor was. Because just like Tanni said, okay, initially CDC is like no masks, then it's like, masks. And what do we do about PPEs and everybody wanting the same equipment at the same time? How do we get -- how do we get what we need? And so we're responsible to not just the school for the deaf but the Department of Health, the public education department. The ECECD department, which is an early childhood department. And also HED, higher ed so trying to fit everybody's requirements was difficult too. But I think it was that can-do attitude, we also had just like Paula and Meghan had said -- And also, I've noticed in the chat, so shout out to the people in the chat, that coaching and also what we had already started with -- with telehealth, with teleintervention, really just people -- people took it and ran with it. And I'm going to not say too much about that because Wendy is going to talk a little bit more about how we did that. I think also then it was -- we travel a lot. We're very rural. A lot of states here are very rural. We're the fifth largest and one of the least populated states. We also are always in hot competition with, like, Alabama and Louisiana on who's the poorest state in the country part of and we usually get to win. And so we had -- that means that, you know, we had extra challenges. We also had some challenges as far as -- sorry -- We lost a staff member to COVID. And the families that we saw, the northwest part of the state was the most highly hit in the country. And that meant that our native populations and every family had someone close to them who was struggling or had passed away. So again, you know, I think that those messages of hope -- I mean when Dr. Cameron talked about children having different experiences and how that affects their brains -- You know, as you all know, the American pediatric association has said that these children moving in this bubble right now then are showing delays. And these are typically developing children that shouldn't be having these delays. But we see families rising to that occasion, making sure that they get their children outside. And I'm sure you all experienced the same thing, when you went out at the beginning of the pandemic, like if you're already someone who did walks, you're like, where did all these people come from? And so just that -- just that inspiring heart to this work that families have. We did have some who stopped services. Paula Pittman pointed out -- and I'm taking her place today -- that -- she said that they had worked with kids who had been born and had to be in the NICU, and for several months they never saw a human face that didn't have a mask on. So to meet those kind of challenges -- and I think that, again, another thing that was surprising to us is how tight we got with each other. Because we travel a lot, as I said, and because our time was reduced, as far as traveling. Our travel time was reduced. We had more time to be able to Zoom with each other and to problem-solve. And so to have, you know, staff all over the state and being able to really have time together in that way -- Again, just like coaching and all of the things that we've learned around telehealth, then that's something that we definitely want to keep up. And we are keeping up as we move into a hybrid model. And so I won't take any more time than that, unless people have questions. Thank you, Tanni. 

>> Dr. Anthony: Yeah. I think one thing that's hard is, wait till you get to the second question, because it's really about some innovation. And what I love, we can't help but leaking our innovation with our challenges. I think it's important to put the hard stuff out there. Quite honestly, it was hard. So I do want to take a little time to acknowledge [indiscernible]'s email because she has a great statewide staff in Utah. She said I was stunned at how hard it hit some of my most effective teachers who were not necessarily the most effective virtual teachers. That's really fair. People -- not only do we ask kids to switch modalities and parents sometimes, we asked our professionals. And there's a certain part of us. Anybody who knows me probably would scream the word extrovert. I really like being with people. I'm probably the only person at the Colorado Department of Education who wants to come back to work. I miss my colleagues. So not to have that real in-person makes a difference. Then what I'd just say, staff trying to juggle home and work, that was hugely impactful. This didn't just happen to people we serve and people we love, it happened within our homes. Joanne, I'm so sorry to hear about your staff person because that was one of the notes that I put down, is that this was a disease that took health. It took lives. It took parents away from children. It took grandparents away. So not just from an isolation, but sometimes somebody truly not being there. Karen further wrote with equally impactful was how much the coaching improved overall. That's the can-do spirit, we're making lemonade. To keep what we gained. Thank you for noting the importance of families in terms of making the families the expert. When I thought about this question, two words came to my mind that just continued to pound us. One was accessibility. We know that when children have sensory challenge, we are number one experts in accessibility. And sometimes that translated to a virtual format, and sometimes it didn't. We had children who have a primary learning mode or strong support mode from tactile, so really having those skills to guide people that were in the room when we were not in the room became paramount. I will tell you I watched my deaf education colleague do office hours, where literally she gathered 200 people in the state of Colorado. She said, Tanni, we haven't had an office hours yet where someone wasn't crying because of the sheer frustration of how do we do this with kids. The whole issue about wearing masks, which, you know, prevented people from reading facial expressions, lips, hearing things clearly. Tons of accessibility issues. And I think when we get to our second question, we're going to talk about some of our solutions. But certainly this uploaded the word accessibility at a forefront. The other word that I think really came to be across, and I think some of you touched on that is equity. I think it laid bear the haves and the have not nots, who had family resources, who had time, who had internet. Honestly, we had communities in Colorado where they just -- the entire community didn't have interpret. We heard stories about kid getting up at 3:00 in the morning to do their homework because that was when they had band width. So you think about families. You think about lost livelihoods, people not working, people who were sick. So I think it really based bear, inequity, and hopefully when we round the corner in our second question, we'll talk about some of the solutions that came up. But I think it's really fair to say there was heart break and there was challenge, and there were tears and there was frustration. And I'm sure there was anguish, and we know without a doubt there was fatigue. Have you ever talked to people who were nor cared? tired. How many had Zoom fatigue? I'm impressed that some of you Zoomed each other, there were days just visual fatigue of being on the computer was more than I could handle. So with that said, we're going to go to our second question. And I would really encourage pipeline to put things in the chat. So, Angela, thanks for sharing, lack of resources, access to internet in rural communities. Absolutely. We saw a contrast between our urban and rural. Stress levels in families. That is such a great word. When we were talking to Julie today about stress, think of the impact. And that our little birds felt that. Our little kids experienced that, through the stress of their caregivers, how to manage it, strains and fatigue. I mean, honestly, have any of us ever gone through a Zoom where somebody didn't mute or unmute fast enough? And I'm thinking most of that is just we're tired. Okay. In our experience with inequity pieces are still very fresh.  Thanks, Meghan. Let's go on to just some of our solutions. We've already heard some of them because we can't help it. I'm going to read this question and it's very specifically targeted to Judy. We're going to give you a chance. Amy. And Wendy. Is that correct?  Did I get -- did I get that correct? So let's start -- let's leave Judy till the last, so let's have those first people I talked about, and just -- this is a chance for this question, so we're going to put it in the chat. But here it is: What were some innovative solutions that came as a result of the pandemic? And then, will you continue these solutions moving forward? Meaning did they become part of your infrastructure of services? 

>> I'll go ahead. My name again is Amy. I'm with New Mexico school for the blind. Definitely a learning curve for our entire group. We have a lot of veterans who, you know, technology is not their f forte. So definitely we all became really good tech pros, I feel like. If there was ever an issue, we would have individual Zoom calls. We were able to provide those -- the assistance and trainings with any struggles that any of our staff members had. But that also educated those staff members for helping their parents and those families who were having struggles, you know, with the virtual learning. So definitely the Zoom format, that was our go-to, that's the format that we used the most. But we dealt with whatever format that the families were wanting us to use. A struggle that we did have in the beginning was getting our forms signed. Of course we want to have all of our HIPAA and all of those beginner initial forms signed. So what we did is we knew a lot of our families. They don't have access to computers, for printing and scanning and signatures. So what we did is we converted our forms into text format. So we were able to send our families all the forms they needed to sign and get back to us through text messaging. So they could do that on their cell phones and get those to say real quick and easy. And it sped up the time period for when we could start those evaluations or ongoing services with our families. We're in the process of piloting some iPads because we knew that this tech world, we need to kind of catch up with where we're at. So there's a few of us in the program who were trying to make that shift from, you know, handwritten notes to, let's do it electronically now so we can get these forms texted to our families. And they'll have all these strategies, as soon as the visit is complete, we'll have those in their hands, ready to use. Another big one was screenshot. So we're here having our visit with our family on Zoom. We can screenshot the image of what the child is working on. Maybe they're with grandparents. Maybe they're with a babysitter for the day. And the family is not able to be on those visits. We can screenshot the image, write a summary of what we were working on, the strategies, then email those or text those to the families who weren't able to join in. So there was a lot of good technology innovation solutions that we were able to do. As far as we made a lot of improvements in our support services. Definitely, I know it was mentioned earlier, the coaching model. That was huge. A big one was also we were able to share more videos with our families over Zoom. We would be able to share screen and show them how other children in the state are using AMDs, how they're using their canes. So the parents are able to see that coaching model through other parents, with permission, or with different specialists from the past that we were able to share those videos. This model helps with families, sharing those videos and pictures with us, in between sessions. So we were able to address those. If they sent videos or anything about a joyous moment, maybe the child had summarized some new skill, we were able to get back with them and say, great job, wonderful. Or maybe a concern, what could we do to address those things as soon as we had our next visit. Or maybe we needed to up our visit to a sooner date. I'll go ahead and let the next person go. But I have more to share here in a little bit. 

>> Okay. I'll go ahead and go next. Again, I'm Wendy in the northwest corner of New Mexico. So some of the same things that Amy was saying is just because of the rural area and the native population and internet connections, things -- and not having that ability to connection. One of the biggest things we were able to do is lend iPads and hot spots to be able to get that connection. And then a lot of the families were still hesitant because of technology and not understanding how to do that. So we had -- we were able to help walk them through how to set up a Zoom and how to do that. But being able to have -- many of the families did have, you know, a little phone. But then trying to see on that, that's all they had was a phone. So just being able to get an iPad made all the difference for these families and children. It helped not only the children to see more of what was happening, but even the parents and, you know, the guardians, whoever was there, it made a big difference. So that was a huge impact, and that we are definitely continuing with the hybrid model. We will definitely continue these ideas that have come up because of the pandemic. And then what that was able to do, too, is when they had an iPad, we were able to see more of the house and more of the interactions that would happen in other places. Because when you do a home visit, you tend to be in one spot. But they would take the iPad around, and we could see what they were making for lunch, or even bath time, and talking about routines during bath. You know, they wouldn't necessarily show -- but we could see the parent, and that was a very nice feature of being able to move that iPad around the house. And what that also stemmed out also to, is, we were able to connect with more family members of this -- of the child. So we were able to see grandmas and grandpas, aunts and uncles, they could Zoom in at the same time, or we might set up -- depending how it worked for the family. But mostly they could also Zoom in so we got more family members involved, once everybody was more comfortable with whatever platform. We also did go by what platform the family was most comfortable using to the, but we had to learn all those platforms ourselves part of but we did, so that we could still connect with the families. So having that ability to have an iPad so that we can have a better connection was a big difference, too. And then one other thing that happened because of everybody getting more comfortable with video was being able to have families get together for family events during those times. So then we could pull families that live so far out, somewhere, where they maybe wouldn't necessarily be able to Jo I know a family event, they could join that way. And then these families connected with each other, and some of them have stayed in contact now because they have, like, a similar situation with their child. So that has been a very big -- another benefit for having this kind of connection over video and being able to see each other that way. The families really enjoyed being able to do that, too. So I have some more, too, but we'll let more time go to -- for Judy to talk. 

>> Dr. Anthony: I feel like I'm the person who needs the least amount of -- 

>> Dr. Cameron: I feel like I need the least amount of time, I've just talked a lot. I want to build on Amy and Wendy. I'm listening to you, it's totally resonating, I'm thinking charging stations, charging stations. You are basically providing community resources, so people don't have to flounder on their own. They can use each other. One family can show another family how to do things. And being -- kind of having the wherewithal and encouraging the people that you are working with to say, it's okay to say you don't know how to do this. It's okay to be having trouble. Ask for help and we'll try to figure something out. We don't have all the solutions, but we have the will to try to make it work for you. So that's what I hear you saying and I think it's really important. In working for kids, we took two strategies that I think are important to just mention. All of a sudden, all of the high schools and colleges were out of school. So you might remember, you know, workwise, we converted to remote learning. But at least in the Pittsburgh area where I am, the schools were kind of in limbo for weeks and weeks before they decided, okay, we're going to have figure something out. And we decided to make use of all those young people who were at loose ends, driving their parents crazy, worrying their parents, because they were at loose ends. And they needed to socially distance. And we created a huge number of volunteers to help parents learn to use the technology. Because a young person could sit there and say, okay, show me what you're doing. No, hit that button. No, that's not going to work, do it this way. And the parents just felt a hundred times better about having them help them than me help them. They are like, oh, I don't want to take your time, I feel so bad. But with a young person who's doing this as a volunteer, they were like, oh, we're so glad you're here. Now go over that again with me. So I think building the sense of community and trying to utilize the whole community, not just the professional staff. But in a crisis like this, everybody wants to be helpful. People want to feel like they're doing something. And people just volunteered like crazy. And it was very accessible to families. And so I urge everybody to think about that. And then the other thing I wanted to say was, yes, you can meet needs and you can come up with creative solutions. But it's really, really important to tell the families you're working with, it's okay to be overwhelmed. And it's okay to need to take care of yourself. Because they're like, oh, I have to take care of my kid and I have to take care -- and my husband isn't working, and this is happening and that is happening. And it's okay to say, take care of yourself. You need a little breather here. Because back to the charging station issues, we can't serve people, but neither can the families. Neither can the parents be -- having everybody depend on them without taking care of themselves. So recognizing that and giving them mental permission to take care of themselves. Think of something you want to do. You need to go for a walk by yourself, do it. You're very -- everybody's dependent on you. So you go take care of yourself, you're not going to be there for them. 

>> I think there's a book coming, lessons of COVID. I want to capture some things I captured in the chat. There's a wonderful opportunity to have families connect with photos, updates, et cetera. Also virtual music therapy. Angela, using items from a home so you can really talk about concepts in their relevance, routines. Really honestly exactly what we hope early intervention is. Use of videos. Thank you, Angela for mentioning, our fields really stepped up. I mean honestly, have you ever been more professionally development fatigued in your entire life? There's too many choices. There were days, it's APH, it's Texas coffee house. I'm doing something. It was like unbelievable how many things really happened. So I think the field did really stand up. Less drive time, and how did you reconvert that, reconstitute that? I mean that's what many people are talking about, is that the commute I had to either go to work or drive across the state to see a family, I can put into more time to get things organized for that family, send  resources. Steve Wendaur talked about in Colorado, we converted a screen into a deeper questionnaire to keep the process, and they saw an equalization of referrals and increase of referrals. Paula talked about co-visits, that it was maybe easier to set up time to do co-visits. So I think people have been very creative. The only two that I was going to add, that I think happened in my state, is that -- one is that I tease my TBIs, I called it porch Braille. I had people send me pictures of what they dropped off at home. So clearly things were happening virtually across the wires with iPads and computers. But we also had people make home deliveries. And this -- this makes me tear up, but one of them that really touched me was not only did they have a light box and all the activities that were going to happen, but there was fruit. So they gave food to this family. They would just drop it off on the porch with a little love note.  Nobody opened the door right away, you know. They probably sanitized back in the days when we were, you know, taking time to, like, clean everything off. But I thought about the power of the itinerant field who still made those trips to the house. They didn't go in, they didn't do the lessons, but they brought the goods to kids. And that created some new procedures in my state, our Colorado instructional material center has always been very firm that materials are sent to the TVI in the school building. Well, all of a sudden we opened it up for families who were receiving things. So we got creative, how do we get materials in the kids' hand some. Then the second thing, I mentioned our deaf education consultant, Seana in her office hours, but in the department we opened office hours. When I started the BVI hours, who's going to come, who are we going to get? I had people to brainstorm with me and it was powerful. One day we talked about a young child who was Spanish speaking and learning Braille. Somebody put it out there and I thought to myself, wow, how do you do that? The family is Spanish speaking, how do you do that? Lo and behold, one of the TVIs said this is what I'm doing. All these brainstorming connections got to happen. So we at the time met and we're still hopefully meeting this school year, so that will be something we'll continue in Colorado. We used it for both professional development, we use it as a chance for people in one part of the state to brainstorm and connect with the other. And it was just a standard time on the calendar to say if you want to pop in and present, you can. If you want to pop in and just listen and learn... I had groupies, there were people that never missed a BVI office session, shockingly. So I think some of that creativity really came up with the c connections. So again, what we might have lost was some of those really intimate connections with families and children in person. I think people really found ways to take advantage of how do we do this in other ways. So I just want to open it up. Panelists, is there anything that you are going to lay awake at 3:00 in the morning going, I so wish I would have said that? And I'm just going to -- it's like first come, first serve, take off your mic and share it, and then we're going to open up with our remaining time, just to see if we have any more questions or comments from the field. So anybody going to lose their mind if they don't get to share something? Don't be shy. 

>> Okay. This is Joanne. And I'm not sure I would lose my mind, I do that all the time, so that would just be typical. But I just wanted to say, when you talked about drop-offs for families, then we certainly did that. But I just wanted to also say that Wendy did that for her staff. And it was just -- the comments that they had about -- Because this was -- this was a difficult time for everyone. And so it's that whole thing of, you know, getting oxygen to -- You know that one. But anyway, she's making sure that those people out there doing the work were also being well cared for. And I just really appreciated that, too. 

>> Beautiful. I also want to kind of follow in Joanne's footsteps in that one. It's the requirements, we wanted to celebrate, it wasn't on my list. There was a past coordinator who retired, and a few others, Loretta, we also had a baby shower. This brought open doors to celebrate for all of our staff members and bring that love. We had some creative ideas, very inspirational. We had baby pictures from the past that we all were able to get who was who. But just bringing that to the team. I also wanted to mention, New Mexico is very large, I believe there's 20 of us in our program. July Manor organized it where we met once a week, we all got the same information, we shared the same information from, like you said, coffee hours and APH, all these wonderful professional developments. But from that, it turned in and inspired parts of our group to open their own study group. So we had Andrea Montoyno, she developed a CVI study group, which is great. They're studying the CVI companion guide. They're looking at avoids and they're doing a lot with the CVI scholar website. They're discussing cases to help support our staff members who are a little stuck, who need a little help. Sophia Diaz and Lynn little, they developed an O&M group. So we're doing -- every other week we have an assignment, and one person puts in the time and teaches the whole group about this one aspect of O&M. We implemented an O&M group for our seven O & M interns that we have currently enrolled with New Mexico State University. There was a Zoom Braille case put together for individualizing these Braille classes for either a family or maybe a group session to really start teaching Braille at an early age. For both the families and for the children. We're also assisting western Michigan University with our research project. The reliability of birth to 6, birth skills inventory. Sophia has taken a lead on that, giving all the data and collaborating with Ph.D. students. Elizabeth, as well as Don Anderson on all of our findings, just to help the field with that. But a big one was with the WREIC, we were able to team up with Utah's parent infant program in the spring. I made wonderful contacts from that experience that would never have happened had we not done the pandemic, had we not been in this. I made a good friend out of it. Hi, Margaret. I know you're w watching. But overall our program was really able to move forward in areas that we didn't even know we could. Of course we miss our in-person visits, but I feel like we've really made the best of it. 

>> Dr. Anthony: Anyone else if not, I'll read a few things in the chat. 

>> We need to switch interpreters. 

>> I just have one more thing in New Mexico with technology that I think happened a whole lot of the parents. They were able to download Marco polo. That was a way to have our deaf and hard of hearing staff sign Marco polos, send them to the families, they could look at them anytime they needed to, then they could send videos back. So that was another great advantage. , was having Marco polo. We did also do the drive-by drop-offs for families, too, which was another 

>> Okay. Great chat. We talked about what families need well beyond child specific materials, what do families need, diapers. formulas Sometimes it looks like the solutions parents are talking about is just a chance to talk. . 

>> This is our business, early development in those critical periods. How we give those kids meaningful practice. You really reinforced it. But I also think at this time of the pandemic, when there is such a focus at what's lost, it is really a beautiful time to come back and celebrate the human spirit, what people did amidst loss, confusion. A lot of frustration and inequity to really figure it out. I always say to people, we are in a human business, that's right. On our best days, we're connecting. What's really been sweet about this conversation is unbelievable opportunities to listen to how you all continue to connect with kids and families. So I have to think from a brain development perspective there's some stuff that did happen at a time that was pretty trying, and those opportunities for brain connections. Maybe not 10,000 times, Judy, but it looks like we got a good number in. With that, I just he will want to thank our panelists for your wisdom. Honestly, I will go back to this transcript and share it with teachers that I touch in Colorado. With that, we just want to thank the WREIC planning committee for a lot of months in figuring how to share across the airwaves. With that, I just wish everybody a happy next part of the year, and continued blessings, whether they're virtual. And if we do connect in person, just know I'm going to be the happiness person in the room because I still misthat a lot. So thank you so, so much for joining us today. Again, we thank all the good folks at TSBVI and our interpreters for-making this happen. 

>> Thanks so much, Tammy. Thanks to everybody who served on the panel today. Thank you, thank you.